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I feel your pain as well

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I have approved and published your comment out of respect to this conversation.

I don’t agree to most of what is written here, which shows a false narrative in my mind. There are also examples, instances and facts that can be found on the internet for that.

I will not publish further comments discussing the matter simply because this wasn’t meant to be political in any way.

> The Israel Palestinian conflict is long and complex

The history of it is indeed long, but the current situation and how to move forward is simple (ending the occupation). We could argue for months about how things came to be like this, but it is for the sake of all human life that i urge people not to drop the issue. Unfortunately too many people just consider it too complex and then stop thinking about it while countless more lives are lost on both ends. Mind you i'm not accusing you personally of dismissing the issue. i'm just pressing on the importance of it because too many people unfortunately do dismiss it.

> Hamas and Gaza opened a surprise war against Israel and is committing war crimes against humanity

This is a point i've been trying to get across: very unfortunately, it is not a surprise. It is only a surprise in the Israeli/Western narrative. To think that it is a surprise, is to show how little awareness and understanding there is of the state of Palestinians and their constantly worsening situation. This situation was inevitable and will continue to happen again and again if the status quo continues. The attacks from Hamas are the product of decades of suffering and transgressions. Again i'm not saying they aren't committing war crimes or giving them a pass for doing so. I am drilling down the facts of the matter and how things came to be in order clarify how to move forward. Pushed to their limit, a starving man will steal and do worse things just to survive. when there is no hope to live, you'll try to die on your terms.

A quick aside here to ask again not to conflate Hamas and Gaza. simple mistake to make but extremely important to distinguish parties on both sides. When i am criticizing Israel, i'm specifically criticizing specifically the IDF, the government and it's policies, and zionist individuals actively engaging in colonialism through pogroms and the like. I do not group these people with the average sensible Israeli citizen, or Jewish people in general.
These distinctions are important because when people conflate things and eat up false narratives, they end up advocating for committing genocide like these people for instance https://twitter.com/loffredojeremy/status/1711861371497840680 . This reduction only serves not to solve the actual issues resulting in more human tragedies.

> Israel must protect itself so these attacks won’t happen again. This isn’t about retribution – it is about defending the livelihood of Israel and its population.

Israel has every right to defend itself and it should. but it needs to be acknowledged that this is not wholly about defending it's citizens. Defense is the claim here, though i am not sure i can even call this retribution. well, there is always some amount of retribution https://x.com/haaretzcom/status/1711392322225877402?s=20

This entire situation is of Israel's doing. Through repeated transgressions and provocations due to the ocupation, Palestinians will protest and get beaten/detained, Terror groups will launch assaults and be met with wildly excessive and indiscriminate force, usually resulting demolishing entire areas by air strikes resulting in in countless palestinian civillian casualties that the media will spin as human shields, and there is never any accountability. bonus points if outside Gaza, then Israel builds new (and illegal) settlements on that land, and have heavy IDF presence there under the guise of protecting Israelis, which inevitably turns into more transgressions and the cycle continues.

Israel has the moral right to defend itself. But it is directly responsible for provocations, then under the guise of defense, deepens the occupation further. If genuinely the main and only goal was the saftey of it's citizens, the one immediate obvious major solution is ending the occupation. What it is engaging in, is ethnic cleansing in slow motion, just slow and narratively justified enough that people don't notice or care.

> That said, The Israeli army, today as in the past, is operating under the strictest rules in the world in preserving the laws of war. There are mistakes and they are being learned. The enemy we face is effectively using ISIS tactics, violating every rule of law. We will never stop to that level. Not in the past. Not now. Not in the future.

I really wish that was true, but it is categorically false. there are many, many, many cases over the years where it is proven false. here are just some examples:
– Usage of white phosphorus in indiscriminate attacks on heavily populated areas which is a war crime, confirmed forensically by multiple organizations later https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/03/25/rain-fire/israels-unlawful-use-white-phosphorus-gaza
– Military sanctioned pogroms by settlers. A good example is Huwara, where settlers were setting fires to cars and properties and injuring Palestinians with IDF standing there and letting them do whatever they want. When Palestinians resisted and fought back, then the IDF only stepped in to beat down the Palestinians and not to stop the destruction caused by settlers. Imagine setting a building on fire while having a fully armed soldier next to you making sure that the residents don't throw a stone at you. https://www.btselem.org/video/20230312_jewish_supremacy_regime_carries_out_pogrom_in_huwarah_and_other_palestinian_communities_in_northern_west_bank#full
– Forced expulsions of people in an occupied land, a good high profile recent example of that is Sheikh Jarrah which is deemed illegal under international law (as cited by UNRWA). A very fun example here is how a guy from new jersey is now living in a home owned by an activist's family for decades. interview at the time stamp https://youtu.be/ZiSRCPiklhI?t=257 , the rest of the video is good too. it's not just one family ofcourse, this is but one example of many others.
– frequent killings of activists, aid workers and journalists like Shireen abu akleh https://apnews.com/article/israel-media-abu-akleh-journalist-al-jazeera-5d601d6c6fdfbae717e90aae7960889b
– Many ex-IDF personnel testimonies that show the horrors they are doing, or outright denounce the Israeli occupation, some examples
– – testimonies from a documentary about tantura during 1948, this is a snippet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMLxByyUv8I and https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1711659460286873642?s=20
– – there's also a bunch of testimonies from "breaking the silence" ex-IDF whistleblowers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YygzKazX2sw and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93hqlmrZKd8
– handy link of other instances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_war_crimes_against_Israel

usually all this results in condemnations by the UN, then nothing actually sticking because the US jumps in with a veto https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-02-17/ty-article/.premium/when-will-the-u-s-get-tired-of-helping-israel-with-un-vetoes/00000186-5fa9-d22b-ad9e-7febfdc60000

And i don't blame you for not being aware. It may be hard to believe but the narrative is shaped so heavily by the IDF that it's impressive if not depressing. a good public example is the case of Shireen abu akleh, a respected american palestinian journalist working in the region for decades. here's a rough timeline:
– Shireen was standing with her crew, four journalists wearing clearly marked press jackets and helmets, in a street without clashing or violence, reporting on another area near by. she was shot in the head.
– Initial IDF statement was that she was murdered by terrorists
– Eyewitness and video evidence comes out and proves there were no insurgents, terrorists, anything anywhere near that could have shot them
– IDF revises statement to say it may have been an accident from their side, promises to revise it's process
– Shireen was a very respected figure, and her funeral had hundreds of people there to mourn
– IDF then beats down the mourners and interrupts the funeral procession. it stated that it was there on the request of her family to keep the peace, and it only started breaking up the crowd after they were thrown with stones
– IDF produces video with one of the mourners throwing a stone at the IDF before the violence begins.
– Shireen's brother refutes IDF's claim that her family requested them to assist in any way with the funeral
– Later, more clear video evidence from other angles shows that the video the IDF produced was doctored and that the "initial stone" thrown was a lie.
– a year later, no accountability

generally speaking, IDF will refute allegations every step of the way, sometimes even fabricating evidence or reasons, and in most cases there is no accountability on their end.

It is perfectly fine for you to still believe that "despite this, the IDF are trying their best, etc…". you are entitled to your opinion, but factually speaking no, the Israeli army does not operate on the highest standard of law or ethics at all. it is the single most condemned country by the UN for it's military actions.

In so far as the current round of attacks, there are reports of IDF deploying white-phosphorus again (no statement issued by them, multiple video evidence sources), and the IDF has also bombed the Egyptian crossing into gaza to prevent aid and humanitarian relief or people from exiting if they could in the first place.

> I have opened my heart and sole in this post to share what it is I am going through.
It was never meant to be written to open a debate on who is to blame, where this conflict is stemming from.

Tsahi I genuinely appreciate you bearing your soul like this. i hope that your situation is as stable as can be and that you and your family and everyone remains safe.

I know that these threads are essentially hijacking the topic of you speaking out to your situation. you most assuredly did not ask for all of this. as i've stated from the start, i know all of this is effectively tone-deaf and not really what anyone in your situation wants to hear right now. I thank you again for your correspondence thus far, regardless of if any of it reached you in any way. There simply is never a right time to talk about this kind of thing, so whenever i see anyone on either side say something that is uninformed, or in worse cases inhumane, i try to step in. Even if these attacks die down now, give it a year or two and it will flare up again as long as the status quo doesn't change. I try educate as much as i can, get educated if i am wrong about anything, and try to make people see eye to eye and beyond biases and misinformation. The only way for meaningful peace is to rise above all of the hate and agendas, critically and not just idealistic thinking. If i was on the ground there i would protest, but sadly i'm not so this is the best i can do.

Thank you for your time Tsahi

The Israel Palestinian conflict is long and complex. I don’t agree with what you’re saying, but this is not the point. Hamas and Gaza opened a surprise war against Israel and is committing war crimes against humanity. Israel must protect itself so these attacks won’t happen again. This isn’t about retribution – it is about defending the livelihood of Israel and its population.

That said, The Israeli army, today as in the past, is operating under the strictest rules in the world in preserving the laws of war. There are mistakes and they are being learned. The enemy we face is effectively using ISIS tactics, violating every rule of law. We will never stop to that level. Not in the past. Not now. Not in the future.

I have opened my heart and sole in this post to share what it is I am going through.
It was never meant to be written to open a debate on who is to blame, where this conflict is stemming from.

>If you can explain to me why this is happening then you effectively accept it. You are also putting some of the blame on me for another (who is obviously my enemy) committing a war crime.

Are you saying because i understand someone's reasoning, i automatically accept it and side with them? does that make sense?

Again, nobody is condoning war crimes on any side, and i don't think anyone here is denying that Hamas has committed war crimes. The idea here is to understand the bigger picture and why each side is acting in the way that it is. Hamas's actions are a direct response to the ongoing occupation. The Israeli military's response is to Hamas's response. It's like bullying someone until they snap, and then using that as an excuse to treat them more violently. i'm not condoning violence or war crimes, but to boil down the situation to "they are bad people" is an impending disaster for human life.

> You accept deliberate killing of civilians and war crimes when it is pointed at the Jews – or at the very least rationalize them.

First of all, please don't deflect with this being about Jews. Palestinians and Israelis are dying irregardless of their religion. I don't accept any loss of life, but yes i will try to understand why and how that happened. If you don't take a step back to critically understand the situation and what has led up to it, you will only contribute to the vicious cycle of violence. I'm not saying Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself, but this is definitely not the way, and it is only making things bloodier on both sides.

> I was born here in Israel. I am happy to share the land with others. I worked shoulder to shoulder with Israeli arabs and I share the present and the future with them.

That's part of the issue here. you have to recognize that these lands are not wholly Israel's. Year after year, more land is illegally annexed, settled and and Palestinians expelled. You've mentioned peaceful coexistance with Israelis (arab or other wise). What about Palestinians? If you were born on the other side of the fence, how would you feel if you've been evicted from your home that's been owned by your family for the past 100 years like the residents of Sheikh Jarrah or countless other places? some of the people evicted are seniors that are literally older than the nation state of Israel that is evicting them under false pretenses. You have to acknowledge that fact. What land you are happy to share does not entirely belong to your nation, has been obtained with blood, and even then is not willingly shared with or returned to it's rightful owners.

> To the list of atrocities we were now informed that 40 babies were killed and some beheaded in their nurseries. Not soldiers. Civilians. Babies.

as always, any loss of life is tragic. But please be very careful with sensational lines like this one. The baby beheadings specifically has been debunked at the time of writing. It was originally reported by i24 and many other outlets ran with it, but later turkish news asked the IDF for an official statement and was told that there is no proof or confirmation of that happening. This is just one example of sensational misinformation. One should always be diligent about these kinds of reports. This goes both ways, for example there are reports and videos of the IDF allegedly using white phosphorous rounds in current indiscriminant bombings (warcrime). However i have yet to see it officially confirmed so i don't go around claiming that (until it's factually proven).

> This doesn’t mean that we will or should go and kill each and every person in Gaza. This won’t happen and couldn’t happen. Simply because this isn’t the way Jews or Israel behave.
How do I know? Not because of “propaganda”. But because I live here. I know the people around me. The ones that are right wing and those that are left wing in their thinking.

Not only has the occupation's policies slowly been leading up to this, this is literally what is happening now. The Israeli government doesn't get to cut power, water, food from a prison and keep bombing it then pretend or claim that it doesn't want to commit genocide. I do hope you and other sensible people agree that this shouldn't happen. You say so now that you don't want that to happen though it was implied in the original post but i digress. Unfortunately when there are people like the minister of national security Ben Gvir having roots as a supporter of an extremist zionist terrorist group (declared terrorists by Israeli government) who are on record spouting disgusting and racist vile rhetoric, you'll have to forgive me and anyone else who don't believe that this isn't the case. From all we've seen from policies and actions, there is no good faith. Even in times of relative peace and stability, there are transgressions on Palestinians. While you might be level headed and don't condone mass genocide, unfortunately many others do. Hell they used to have parties in sderot to watch the bombs go off in Gaza.

> You can keep trying to explain to me that it is my or my country's fault that our civilians were purposefully butchered, kidnapped and tortured on Saturday. It won't get me convinced.

You can disagree with anything said here and try to refute it. but there's a difference between refuting an argument, and willingly covering your ears and saying "you can't change my mind". and unfortunately, this situation is borne from too many people doing that.